Today Israel, like Ukraine, is in a phase of a difficult and protracted war under extremely unfavorable external conditions. Despite this, as well as all the criticism from Western partners, the country demonstrates resilience and confidence that all the goals it has set for itself will be achieved. And yet Israel, even despite the war, finds the strength and opportunities to provide a wide range of assistance to Ukraine: from humanitarian missions to the transfer of Patriot systems.
How is Israel helping Ukraine? What is common between the war in Ukraine and in Israel, and what are the fundamental differences? What experience can the IDF transfer to the Armed Forces of Ukraine? How are military threats perceived in Israel and in Ukraine? What does the future of the Gaza Strip and Israel look like after the end of hostilities? How influential a player in the Middle East does Russia remain?
Read about this and much more in an exclusive interview by the publication UA.News with the famous diplomat, the Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary Ambassador of Israel to Ukraine, Michael Brodsky. Further — the direct speech of the diplomat.
On the Tragedy of Babyn Yar and Its Lessons for Modernity
Annually on September 29 we mark the anniversary of the tragic events in Babyn Yar. Quite a lot of years have passed, but, unfortunately, not all lessons have been learned. And the events that took place then are one of the most terrible pages of Jewish history here, on the territory of Ukraine, and on the territory of Eastern Europe in general. It is not for nothing that Babyn Yar became a symbol of the Holocaust in the post-Soviet space. Unfortunately, today we often remember what happened, and not only because we need to remember it, not only because we need to honor the memory of those who died, but because today's events do not give us the opportunity to forget about what is happening. Many events happening today remind us of those tragedies. These are events that are happening both in Ukraine and in Israel. And we are talking with you a few days before the second anniversary of the events of October 7 in Israel. The attack by terrorists, as a result of which more than a thousand Israelis were killed with particular cruelty. And, of course, it is impossible not to think about what happened in 1941 when we talk about what is happening today.
How Israel Helps Ukraine
We can talk about humanitarian aid. From the very beginning of the war in Ukraine, Israel has been very active in helping in a humanitarian sense. These are a variety of programs that mainly went through MASHAV — a division of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs that provides humanitarian assistance to various countries.
But the assistance provided by Israel to Ukraine is unprecedented for MASHAV, because it has never been provided on such a scale.
We can also recall the field hospital transferred to Ukraine, and that Israel transferred generators, medical equipment, medicines, food, drinking water.
The last such assistance provided is several installations for purifying drinking water, very large, powerful installations that we are currently transferring to the Ukrainian authorities. 4 such installations have already been transferred: one in Uman, one in the Chernihiv region, and two more in the Kyiv region. And also in the south of Ukraine we plan to install several more such installations. They will allow to establish the supply of drinking water in those places where there are problems with it either due to drought or due to hostilities. We hope that this will help residents cope with the shortage of drinking water.
«Red Lines» in the Transfer of Weapons
In Israel, there are quite understandable restrictions on the supply of weapons to Ukraine, I have spoken about this many times. But any details we discuss directly with the Ukrainian leadership, so I would not want to do this publicly. I consider it a mistake and will not comment in any way. There are contacts, there are discussions, there are requests and appeals from the Ukrainian side, this is no secret. But I would not want to disclose the essence of these contacts.
On the Exchange of Experience between the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the IDF
Much is similar in our wars, although these are, of course, different wars: the reasons are different, the history is different. But the very format of waging war is largely similar, and this concerns not only the conduct of hostilities in urban areas.
Rather, we talk more about the use of drones and other technologies, because both our war and your war today are high-tech. We see how the role of drones and other technical solutions has increased, and in this sense, there is an exchange of experience.
We are very interested in Ukrainian experience, because Ukraine has been fighting drone attacks for almost 4 years now. In Israel, this experience is much less, but we also have technologies, we have our own solutions. On this issue, we can continue cooperation very actively, and this cooperation will be very useful for our countries.
On the Influence of the Russian Federation in the Middle East
The situation is constantly changing. The change of regime in Syria also affected Russia's influence in our region. But this influence is still very great, and we cannot fail to take it into account. The Middle East is the region where all our interests are concentrated, and all threats and dangers also come from the Middle East.
This is first of all Iran, and Russia has very close ties with Iran, there is an exchange of both technologies and experience. This cooperation worries us, we talk about it directly, including with Russia, through the channels that exist, because for us the issue of the Iranian threat is issue number one.
Despite what happened not so long ago, that short-term 12-day war that Israel certainly won — it does not mean that Iran has ceased to be a threat. The threat from Iran still remains, it is a threat of both Iran's nuclear program and the terrorism that is actively supported by Iran. Terrorist organizations around the world receive support — both weapons and finances — from Iran. We discuss all these issues.
Russia, at the same time, is still a fairly serious and influential player in the Middle East.
Does Moscow Hear Israel's Signals
I am not in Moscow, we are in Kyiv now, so I would not want to talk about what is happening there. But I will give one example: during the war with Iran, we heard condemnation of Israel from Russia, but we did not see any active actions that would help Iran. This is also partly due to diplomacy.
On Iran's Nuclear Program After Strikes by Israel and the USA
According to the assessments of our specialists, Iran's nuclear program has been set back several years. This does not mean that it cannot be restored, especially if other countries help Iran to do so.
We believe that Iran still strives to create its nuclear weapon, for us this is a red line that certainly cannot be allowed for Iran to cross, because the entire Middle East will change. For Israel, this is a vitally important issue, a question of the existence of our state.
But we believe that we have achieved success in this war, achieved most of the set goals. We have set back Iran's nuclear program, we managed to eliminate the country's leadership that was directly involved in the nuclear program.
A very serious blow has been dealt to Iran. However, the Iranian regime continues to exist — we did not have the goal of changing the regime as a result of this military operation — and this regime continues to pose a threat to Israel and to many other countries. Including to Ukraine, since Tehran cooperates with Russia as well, therefore Iran also poses a threat to Ukraine.
Why the IDF Could Not Quickly Capture Gaza
I do not really believe in conspiracy theories, especially when it comes to Israel. There are a lot of other explanations for what is happening, and conspiracy explanations in 99% of cases turn out to be untenable.
To take control of Gaza is not so simple. The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated areas in the world with very dense urban development, very dense population, where it is practically impossible to separate terrorists from the civilian population, although there are questions about whether there is a civilian population there and how civilian it is.
Over the years that Hamas has controlled the Gaza Strip, very many have come to support terror, very many cannot imagine themselves outside of terror and outside the desire to destroy Israel. But we acted cautiously, as far as possible in conditions where terrorists use civilians as a human shield, and we did not use all opportunities also because we were negotiating with Hamas.
With the support of the United States and with the support of Egypt, negotiations were held in Qatar, and we hoped to agree that all our hostages would be released. Dozens of Israeli hostages are still in the hands of Hamas. Unfortunately, not all of them remained alive. This is one of our main goals — to free the Israeli hostages, every single one.
The second goal is to destroy Hamas's power and the infrastructure of terror in the Gaza Strip. In parallel, there are contacts with the support of the United States to agree both on the release of hostages and on the political status of the Gaza Strip, which certainly cannot be controlled by Hamas. We are not ready to put up with Hamas's rule.
Who will control the Gaza Strip? There is no answer to this question yet, there are various options. But Israel is conducting this operation not in order to stay and control the Gaza Strip. We have been there before, we know how difficult it is, so we are conducting this operation in order to achieve our goals and then transfer control of the Gaza Strip to those political forces that will be ready to live in peace with Israel.
On the Future of Gaza and Hamas
It is difficult to imagine anyone worse than Hamas, especially after the events of October 7. My imagination is not so developed as to imagine anyone worse than Hamas. We hope that pragmatic forces will come that understand that the interest of the Palestinians is not in enmity with Israel, but in turning the Gaza Strip into a normal, prosperous territory and using all the advantages that this territory has.
This is a workforce, this is a young population, this is access to the sea, potential opportunities for tourism, for agriculture and so on. This is all that Hamas did not do, because all bets are placed on terror, all efforts are placed on harming Israel, and not on doing something useful for their population and turning the Gaza Strip into a place where one can live, and not only fight and practice terror and the murder of Israelis.
On Models of Peaceful Coexistence in the Middle East
We have precedents when in the Middle East Israel concluded peace agreements with neighboring countries. These peace agreements are still in effect, and they work perfectly. This is the agreement with Egypt, the agreement with Jordan, the «Abraham Accords», first of all with the Arab Emirates, with Bahrain, with other countries, including in North Africa.
We hope that we will be able to expand these agreements and other countries will join them. Today there is a theoretical possibility that Syria and Saudi Arabia will become part of these agreements.
This would be very important, because the same Saudi Arabia is the most influential country in the Middle East. We hope that after solving the problem of the Gaza Strip, we will be able to resume the process of signing new agreements with other Arab countries.
The Humanitarian Situation in Gaza
I will not say that everything is fine in Gaza. There really is a humanitarian crisis there. Israel helps to overcome this crisis, transfers food.
There is no famine, as we understand it, there. Probably, there is a lack of some products, there are interruptions with electricity, but we need to understand that a war is going on in the Gaza Strip, and the responsibility for what is happening lies with Hamas, which led the residents of this sector to the situation in which they are today. Led by years of struggle with Israel, numerous attempts to damage the civilian population of Israel — and, of course, by what happened on October 7. Then a brutal murder of more than a thousand Israelis took place. And all this led to Israel having to start this military operation.
The responsibility for what is happening in the Gaza Strip lies with the Hamas organization.
On Possible Political Changes in Israel After the End of the War
Everything is possible. In Israel, power changes through elections, as in any democratic country. Elections, if they are held on time, should take place in a year, so the wait is not so long.
There are protests, it's no secret, but there are also many Israelis who support the current government and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Throughout the existence of Israel, right and left forces have been operating in the country, there is an active political struggle, political dialogue, and in this sense, Israel resembles Ukraine, where there is also no unity on many issues.
In Ukraine, there is a very active, often stormy discussion, so in this sense we are similar. And thank God for that! That we do not have authoritarianism and we can openly and freely talk about our positions.
How Israel Reacts to Criticism from European Partners and the Recognition of Palestine
We are extremely negative about the statements of a number of countries, primarily European ones, about the recognition of a Palestinian state, because we believe that in this way they encourage terror.
There is such a thing as cause-and-effect relationship. Unfortunately, in the minds of many, a cause-and-effect relationship may form between the events of October 7 and the recognition of a Palestinian state. And many may draw a direct line between the brutal attack of terrorists on Israel and the recognition of a Palestinian state by part of the world.
We believe that a Palestinian state certainly has the right to exist — if it recognizes Israel, if it recognizes the right of Jews to this land, if it is ready to live in peace with us side by side. If this happens, then a Palestinian state may well be created. Unfortunately, today we are at a stage where one cannot speak about a Palestinian state.
Today it is necessary to achieve the goals that we have set for ourselves in the Gaza Strip. It is necessary to stop the terror from Hamas, it is necessary to change the situation when Hamas holds the residents of the Gaza Strip as hostages, and after that talk about how political issues with the Palestinians can be further resolved.
Today, the recognition of a Palestinian state is a purely declaration. It is clear that this declaration has no effect. But the terrorists will be inspired by the fact that countries recognize a Palestinian state, despite the events of October 7.
Israel has never ruled out the possibility of peaceful coexistence with the Palestinians. This is also written in UN decisions. We are for peaceful coexistence, but we are not ready to live side by side with a state that seeks to destroy Israel. This will not happen. If there are conditions for peaceful coexistence with Palestine, then perhaps such a state will be created in the future. But today there are no such conditions.
On Relations with the USA and the «Jewish Lobby» in Washington
Support for Israel exists at all levels and in all strata of American society. This is not only the pro-Israel lobby, which plays an important role — it is very active and influential — but it is also those connections, that moral support that we receive from the United States as a country that is the only democracy in the Middle East.
Israel is the only country in the Middle East that allows freedom of speech, freedom of political discussion, where there are free elections. Nothing like this exists in neighboring countries.
From the point of view of the United States, we are certainly the main ally of the United States in the Middle East. But we must not forget that Israel not only receives, but also gives a lot.
If we take the military sphere, many of the latest developments were made jointly by Israel and the USA, including the famous "Iron Dome", which was developed jointly, and other systems of weapons and defense. Israel for the United States is not a burden, but a partner country.
In the United States, Christian communities also have a very serious influence, and the reason for their support of Israel is the support of the right of Jews to live on their land, support that is based on their religious beliefs, and this is important today, especially when the Republican Party is in power.
On Ihor Kolomoisky and His Israeli Citizenship
Israel does not interfere in the legal processes that take place on the territory of Ukraine or any other sovereign country.
Every Jew or person who has the right to repatriation under the Law of Return can apply to the relevant authorities of the State of Israel with a request for Israeli citizenship — and receive this citizenship. This is the right of every Jew or person who has the right to it in accordance with the Law of Return.
As for Israelis who are in custody here, our duty is to maintain contact with them. Our consul is constantly in touch with them. This is the only duty of the State of Israel — to maintain contact and to ensure that the rights of these people are fully observed.
The Difference in the Perception of War in Israel and in Ukraine
I feel a serious difference. In Israel, an alarm lasts a few minutes, sometimes up to half an hour maximum. It does not happen that an alarm lasts several hours in a row, or even for 12 hours, as it happens, unfortunately, here.
On the other hand, most buildings built in the last 20-25 years are equipped with a special room, protected including from missile strikes and from UAV hits. Not from direct hits, because it is impossible to protect from a direct hit, but these rooms protect from the blast wave and from shrapnel. Israelis disciplinedly go to these rooms always when an alarm is declared. But, fortunately, the alarm does not last long, and I do not know how Israelis would behave if they had to spend 12 hours in this room.
In Ukraine, unfortunately, there are no such rooms, and not everyone goes to the bomb shelter. The problem is in their number, but it is also understandable when such a situation has been going on for almost 4 years, when many hours in a row, especially at night, alarms last…
I cannot give any smart advice in this sense. The threats are different, and Ukraine is facing today those threats that no country in the world is facing, including Israel. The intensity and duration of these threats is unprecedented.
Ukraine is really on the front line, I do not know another country that would experience such frequent attacks by such a number of drones. There was an attempt to attack Israel with drones from Iran, but they were either shot down or did not reach. Fortunately, we have not experienced such a number of drones.
Rockets are a different story. Now, when there was a war with Iran, it was quite unpleasant. I was just in Israel. Unfortunately, there were casualties. Not all rockets can be shot down, especially when dozens of rockets are launched simultaneously — here, unfortunately, there are both casualties and serious destruction. But as for drones, Ukraine has accumulated unique experience here.
On the Feeling of Safety in Ukraine
This is a question of attitude and personal feeling. On the one hand, I understand that there is no shelter and no safe rooms here. On the other hand, when you have been in this situation for 4 years, whether you want to or not, you already get used to it and treat it as a routine or a more or less normal situation. Therefore, I cannot say that I feel safe here: with your mind you understand that the threats are very serious. Maybe you get used to them. But still, there is little pleasant in this.
Russian Provocations in NATO Countries and How Israel Would React to Them
It is difficult to speak in such a hypothetical key. Israel is not a NATO country, and I certainly will not advise NATO on how to respond. So far we do not know the full picture, what exactly happened, where these unmanned vehicles were launched from…
As for Israel, it always reacts quickly and promptly to any violations of its airspace. But we are dealing with terrorists, everything is more or less clear there. When rockets and unmanned vehicles fly from the side of the Gaza Strip or Hezbollah — they must be immediately shot down. We are in a state of war with them. This is a war that does not stop for a single day. Yes, there are periods of calm, but this does not mean that the war is over, it can resume any day.
Therefore, we are very attentive to any threats and to any attempts at provocations. And naturally, any rockets or unmanned vehicles Israel immediately shoots down.
